A Mind- Bending Conversation

 He visited our church months ago at the invitation of some neighbors. Afterward, he met me in the foyer calling himself a secular humanist atheist. He wanted to get to get together some time for a talk so we could better understand one another. 

Life happened. I got busy. He also got busy. Months passed. He reached out and we worked through our schedules for an appointment. He came to the office and so began one of the most mind-bending conversations I have ever had. Questions upon questions. We discussed everything from Bible literalism to social hot button issues of the day. I will call my friend Brian, though that is not his name, to protect his anonymity. 

He had tough questions about the character of God, the hypocrisy of Christians, the ineffectiveness of prayer, indoctrination of children, the lack of impact of the church on culture and so much more. That conversation lasted five hours and twenty minutes. It never got heated. We disagreed a lot. We had very little common ground except a mutual respect for one another. Neither of us swayed the other. I even told him that was not my job to persuade him. My job was to present the truth. It was God's job to do any persuading. 

I asked him at one point, "What would it take to convince you?" His reply was interesting. He commented, "If God is real, He can reveal Himself to me. He can change my mind." He is right. His analytical mind questions everything. He is looking for evidence and empirical data. He is looking for facts. God is discovered through faith. 

I had no idea we talked that long. We both enjoyed the debate. We did not agree, but our talk was never contentious. It was pleasant and passionate. It felt like we talked for an hour or two. Neither of us had any idea how much time had elapsed. Like two bulls in the pasture battling for supremacy, we locked mental horns and pushed back and forth for supremacy. Me trying to prove God and him trying to disprove the things I hold sacred. He was never disrespectful. He is skeptical of everything in the Christian faith from the authenticity of the Bible, the virgin birth, resurrection, end times prophecy, the rapture, heaven and hell. It proved challenging to debate with him when I kept referring to a book that he does not believe is the word of God. 

When I got home, I felt exhilarated as well as exhausted. I could barely keep my eyes open after dinner.  The mind-bending conversation stimulated me. Made me think a lot. I used brain cells I did not even know I had. Before Brian arrived, I prayed for God to help me have clear recall, be humble, and loving. I think God did that. That conversation also drained me. I slept soundly that night. 

I think God is working on Brian. He told me he had not attended a worship service for two decades before coming to Spring Creek. He sat in my office for nearly five and a half hours. I believe a friendship was established. I told Brian before he left that I would pray for him. I also challenged him to read the Bible with the mindset for God to reveal Himself. He has read the Bible through twice several decades ago. That is more than can be said of most Christians. I think God is drawing him. I look forward to more conversations with him in the future. He is more than an atheist. He is my friend now. 

Misrepresenting Jesus

 I do not understand. I never have. I guess I never will. Why some hate mongers calling themselves Christians promote hate aimed at some people in society who need the love of God most. Such people cherry pick sins and the people who commit them to lash out at in fury, hatred, rage, and condemnation. 

Twice in the past week I heard a different version of the same story from two different people. Both talked about a religious group, I dare not call them a church, who confronted some sinners and told them they should all be lined up and killed. Please tell me where you find Jesus using such hateful language toward sinners. Go ahead. It is not there. The harshest words Jesus spoke was to the religious, self-righteous, hypocritical, legalistic, and hateful religious rulers. 

It is easy to lump people into categories and judge them from a distance. It is another thing to get to know those individuals, to cultivate a relationship with them, to engage with them in spiritual conversations, and to earn their trust and the right to be heard. Admittedly this is not easy. In such relationships it is often two steps forward followed by three steps backward. It is slow going. It requires persevering love. If our job is to evangelize the lost, which way do you think is more effective? Holding a sign filled with hate, screaming hateful things? Or loving people where they are, prayerfully, patiently, boldly, persistently, sharing truth? 

In John 13:34-35, Jesus commanded us to love one another. He also informed us that the world would know that we are His disciples by the fact that we love one another. Some of the meanest most hateful people I have ever met have been church members. Liars. Gossips. Judgmental. Pious self-righteous hypocrites. On the other hand, some of the sweetest, kindest, most generous, and loving people I have ever known have also been church members. They are compassionate, merciful, filled with the love of Jesus, and gracious. 

It makes my blood boil when people mispresent God to the lost. This past week I spent time with a self- professing atheist. One of the things that turns him off to Christians is the hate. I had to admit that it is a problem. Christians often misrepresent Jesus to the world. 

Hateful Christians who judge others so often fail to see the sin in their own eyes clearly. See [Matt 7:1-5] They fail to note that their own sin is just as offensive to God as the pagan's sin. Hatemongers too often forget, but for the grace of God, they too could be bound in wickedness and deceived into a life of debauchery. They ignore the truth that Jesus rescued them from profligate living in the same way He longs to do for sinners who do not know Him. 

I once talked to a janitor who worked at my home church in the hall that shook me up. I have never forgotten that conversation. Roy was more than a janitor. He was also a worship pastor and a street preacher. He talked to me about his ministry with drug addicts, gang members, and prostitutes. What he said that day is tattooed on heart and mind. He said with tears in his eyes, "They can't get to Jesus because of the church. We get in their way. Because we judge them, don't love them, and hate them. They cannot get to Jesus because of the church." That conversation happened twenty-four years ago. It still rings in my ears. God convict us, lead us to repentance and forgive us. 

For all the good we think we do under our steeples, how many languish in the shadows on the slippery slope of sin that leads to eternal damnation. How many will never darken the doors of our buildings because they know they will not be welcomed. May we represent the true Jesus of love, compassion, mercy, and grace to people who need it most.